Adventures with a bread-making robot.
Apr. 11th, 2011 09:39 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
brooksmosesI recently got a bread machine -- ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
cjsmith was giving one away because it had been unused in her closet for quite some time, and I had been thinking that it would possibly be nice to have one but I wasn't going to go to much effort to buy one because I was afraid of it lingering in my closet after an initial burst of use, so it worked out nicely, and if my fear comes true, I can just continue the cycle of passing it along. It's a Welbilt ABM100-3, which seems to have been one of the earlier ones; it looks very much like a squat half-sized R2 unit with a clear glass dome.
I have now made three loaves of bread with it, and am somewhat perplexed. The second loaf I made was a loaf of rosemary French bread -- I took the basic French bread recipe from the recipe book that came with the bread machine (3 cups flour, 2.5 tsp of yeast, 1.5 tsp each of salt, sugar, and shortening, and 1 5/8 cup warm water) and substituted olive oil for the shortening and added about a tablespoon of chopped rosemary. It worked just as advertised -- the bread rose up to the top of the canister in the bread machine, and baked into a nice cylindrical loaf. Quite tasty, too!
The third loaf was supposed to be exactly like the second. However, when I looked at the bread machine after the rising cycle had nearly finished, the glass dome was entirely filled with dough that had risen well outside of its bounds. I averted disaster by carefully removing it and dumping it onto a baking dish and putting it in the oven -- which worked out quite well, despite the dough being too foamy to shape properly into a loaf, and my not really having any idea how long to cook it and also starting out with a cold oven. The bread turned out perfectly cooked, though I learned that I should have greased and/or floured the pan.
So, the perplexing thing: This was exactly the same recipe, both times. Not only that, but yeast from the same jar, and flour from the same bag.
The differences: The bag of flour had been open an extra couple of days the second time. The first loaf was cooked attiger_spot's house; the second at mine, which is a bit colder, so it's possible that the machine overcompensated when warming the dough for rising. The second loaf had a bit more rosemary, which I can't imagine is the reason. In the first loaf, I added the salt and sugar directly on top of the yeast; on the second loaf, I put the salt and sugar on top of the flour -- but it should be pretty well mixed regardless. And ... that's about it.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what might have caused this? I could just use the "in case the dough rises too much" suggested variation of less yeast and water, but then maybe it will be like the first loaf, and so not rise enough.
Also, any good recipes for bread-machine bread, beyond the basics in its cookbook? I'd particularly like to find a good whole-wheat bread that's not just white bread with a little whole wheat for flavor like the supplied recipe.
cjsmith was giving one away because it had been unused in her closet for quite some time, and I had been thinking that it would possibly be nice to have one but I wasn't going to go to much effort to buy one because I was afraid of it lingering in my closet after an initial burst of use, so it worked out nicely, and if my fear comes true, I can just continue the cycle of passing it along. It's a Welbilt ABM100-3, which seems to have been one of the earlier ones; it looks very much like a squat half-sized R2 unit with a clear glass dome.I have now made three loaves of bread with it, and am somewhat perplexed. The second loaf I made was a loaf of rosemary French bread -- I took the basic French bread recipe from the recipe book that came with the bread machine (3 cups flour, 2.5 tsp of yeast, 1.5 tsp each of salt, sugar, and shortening, and 1 5/8 cup warm water) and substituted olive oil for the shortening and added about a tablespoon of chopped rosemary. It worked just as advertised -- the bread rose up to the top of the canister in the bread machine, and baked into a nice cylindrical loaf. Quite tasty, too!
The third loaf was supposed to be exactly like the second. However, when I looked at the bread machine after the rising cycle had nearly finished, the glass dome was entirely filled with dough that had risen well outside of its bounds. I averted disaster by carefully removing it and dumping it onto a baking dish and putting it in the oven -- which worked out quite well, despite the dough being too foamy to shape properly into a loaf, and my not really having any idea how long to cook it and also starting out with a cold oven. The bread turned out perfectly cooked, though I learned that I should have greased and/or floured the pan.
So, the perplexing thing: This was exactly the same recipe, both times. Not only that, but yeast from the same jar, and flour from the same bag.
The differences: The bag of flour had been open an extra couple of days the second time. The first loaf was cooked at
tiger_spot's house; the second at mine, which is a bit colder, so it's possible that the machine overcompensated when warming the dough for rising. The second loaf had a bit more rosemary, which I can't imagine is the reason. In the first loaf, I added the salt and sugar directly on top of the yeast; on the second loaf, I put the salt and sugar on top of the flour -- but it should be pretty well mixed regardless. And ... that's about it.Does anyone have any suggestions as to what might have caused this? I could just use the "in case the dough rises too much" suggested variation of less yeast and water, but then maybe it will be like the first loaf, and so not rise enough.
Also, any good recipes for bread-machine bread, beyond the basics in its cookbook? I'd particularly like to find a good whole-wheat bread that's not just white bread with a little whole wheat for flavor like the supplied recipe.
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no subject
Date: 2011-04-12 05:06 am (UTC)I am actually temporarily without a breadmaker so if you'd like to borrow it for a while that would be cool :)
no subject
Date: 2011-04-12 05:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-12 05:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-12 06:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-12 06:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-12 05:26 am (UTC)I remember the booklet had a little diagram indicating that the yeast should be kind of off to one side of the bread chamber -- was the physical position of the yeast pile different between the two loaves? Did you refrigerate the yeast before adding it both times, or was there maybe an initial temperature difference there? What about the water temperature?
no subject
Date: 2011-04-12 05:31 am (UTC)Also, I think the water might have been a little warmer with the second loaf, but not a lot. That could have been a part of it; it's one of the few things that seems likely to make it rise more rather than less.
no subject
Date: 2011-04-12 05:43 am (UTC)I am usually more generous with my sugar (well, I use honey, same idea) than that recipe. (I'm usually closer to a TBS or even a TBS and a half, though I don't usually bother with a measuring spoon, honey being what it is.)
no subject
Date: 2011-04-12 05:51 am (UTC)I may need to try some experiments -- and, if I do, the salt position is one of the first I'll try. Might also add more sugar, though only if I'm intending to bake a loaf outside the machine!
no subject
Date: 2011-04-12 05:54 am (UTC)"100% Whole Wheat Bread (King Arthur)
1 1/4 cups water
2 tablespoons olive or vegetable oil
1/4 cup honey or maple syrup
3 Cups King Arthur 100% White Whole Wheat or
Traditional Whole Wheat Flour -- up to 3 1/2 cups
1/4 cup Sunflower Seeds -- or sesame or flax seeds, or combination (optional)
1 tablespoon vital wheat gluten
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1 1/2 teaspoons instant yeast
Put all of the ingredients into the bread pan in the order listed. Program for
basic white bread, and press Start.
For 1 1/2 lb. bread machine
Source:
" KingArthurFlour.com "
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 205 Calories; 18g Fat (72.9% calories
from fat); 8g Protein; 7g Carbohydrate; 4g Dietary Fiber; 0mg Cholesterol;
3208mg Sodium. Exchanges: 1/2 Grain(Starch); 1 Lean Meat; 3 Fat.
NOTES : The following recipe is one we worked out for the Zojirushi. It makes a
firm, sweet loaf of golden bread. It shouldn't be hard adapting it to your own
machine; all you need to know is what proportion of flour/liquid/yeast your
machine functions best with. Take a look at the dough after it's kneaded for 20
minutes or so; it should be smooth, not sticky (too little flour) or lumpy (too
little liquid), forming a nice ball. If the dough looks good at this point,
you're probably all set."
You will have to make adjustments if your bread machine is not a 1.5 pound machine - mine is a 2 pound Zoji, so I increase everything. I usually use 1 tablespoon or two of dark molasses and the rest honey for the sweetener, although I have occasionally used maple syrup, too. I also use flax meal for the seeds.
There are two possible explanations for the difference in the loaves. One is measuring, You must have a consistent measuring technique. I fluff mu flour with a whisk, spoon it into the measuring cup, then scrape off the top with a straightedge - no tamping down. If you scoop, you will get a lot more flour in the cup. My son does his bread measuring the flour by weight, but I haven't gotten good results that way, Your mileage may vary.
The other is the fact that the flour was open for a few days. Flour absorbs moisture from the air - and loses it - depending on the humidity. While this sounds trivial, it can make a huge difference, loaf to loaf. It sounds like your first loaf had more moisture in the flour and was heavier - or the second had less flour in general, so it puffed up more.
The King Arthur site is excellent, and you can talk online live with their baking consultants. They will help you modify recipes and give advice like this. I got the recipe above from their site, but it doesn't seem to be there any more. Here's the link to teir bread machine recipes: http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/yeast-breads-and-rolls/bread-machine-breads-baked-in-machine
no subject
Date: 2011-04-14 03:51 pm (UTC)The King Arthur site is a wealth of information. Their whole wheat method above is what I learned to bake on, and it's well worth making...
no subject
Date: 2011-04-12 10:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-04-13 03:23 am (UTC)Not that I have any clue, nor confidence that the book has a clue, how to help with two runs of the same recipe coming out so differently. But hey, it's worth a look -- and I obviously have no further use for this book. :-)
I shall have to figure out a Lazy Busy Person's Way to get the book to you.
no subject
Date: 2011-04-13 05:41 am (UTC)This was what kinda bugged me about bread machines... a bit too much variability and not quite enough certainty that X happened because of Y.
no subject
Date: 2011-04-13 06:48 am (UTC)I have a post and comments (http://pyrzqxgl.livejournal.com/3010.html) about making pumpkin bread and "colonial bread" in my bread machine.
no subject
Date: 2011-04-13 03:15 pm (UTC)Oooooh. We gotta try those.
rachat de credit simulation
Date: 2011-04-23 09:16 am (UTC)